{"id":18255,"date":"2016-05-13T04:10:33","date_gmt":"2016-05-13T09:10:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/?p=18255"},"modified":"2016-05-17T11:36:31","modified_gmt":"2016-05-17T16:36:31","slug":"eps-61-co-leadership-male-female","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/eps-61-co-leadership-male-female\/","title":{"rendered":"Eps 61: Co-Leadership, Male and Female"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>If you serve or cater to both men and women, it makes sense that you represent those people with both men and women in leadership. But, this is a very modern\u00a0development. Event in many business sectors the lack of women in top positions of leadership\u00a0continues to be a problem.<\/p>\n<p>Reflecting a true image of humanity back to those we\u00a0lead or serve in ministry shouldn&#8217;t be such a strange\u00a0concept either, but it&#8217;s often rare and\u00a0controversial in religious\u00a0spheres.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-18269\" src=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/refugelogo-300x200.jpg\" alt=\"refugelogo\" width=\"300\" height=\"200\" srcset=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/refugelogo.jpg 300w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/refugelogo-150x100.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Today my guests are Kathy Escobar and Karl Wheeler, Co-Pastors for more than ten years of\u00a0<strong>the Refuge<\/strong>, a mission center and Christian community near Denver, Colorado.<\/p>\n<p>\u2022 They also have a new podcast called <strong>Faith Circus<\/strong> where they record their &#8220;big tent, high-wire conversations of faith, church, and life (and the occasional elephant in the room)&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-18273\" src=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/faith-circus-only-wording-2-300x194.jpg\" alt=\"faith-circus-only-wording-2\" width=\"300\" height=\"194\" srcset=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/faith-circus-only-wording-2-300x194.jpg 300w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/faith-circus-only-wording-2-150x97.jpg 150w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/faith-circus-only-wording-2.jpg 344w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 300px) 100vw, 300px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-18272\" src=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/kathy-and-Karl.jpg\" alt=\"kathy and Karl\" width=\"295\" height=\"169\" srcset=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/kathy-and-Karl.jpg 295w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2016\/05\/kathy-and-Karl-150x86.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 295px) 100vw, 295px\" \/><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p><span style=\"color: #ff6600;\"><em>\u2022 SPARK MY MUSE relies on YOUR support &#8211; <a href=\"https:\/\/www.paypal.com\/cgi-bin\/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&amp;hosted_button_id=KVNWHBFV8MHF6\" target=\"_blank\">leave a gift of <strong>any amount here<\/strong>.<\/a><\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #ff6600;\"><em>\u2022 Or support monthly, at just a $1 or more <strong><a style=\"color: #ff6600;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.patreon.com\/sparkmymuse\" target=\"_blank\">HERE<\/a><\/strong> and co-create with me!<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2FEps61Refuge.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2Feps-61-co-leadership-male-female%2F\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"100%\" height=\"165\" frameborder=\"0\" id=\"blubrryplayer-1\" class=\"blubrryplayer\" title=\"Blubrry Podcast Player\"><\/iframe><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/content.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/Eps61Refuge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=18255-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/content.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/Eps61Refuge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"Eps61Refuge.mp3\">Download<\/a> (Duration: 47:12 &#8212; 64.8MB) | <a href=\"#\" class=\"powerpress_link_e\" title=\"Embed\" onclick=\"return powerpress_show_embed('18255-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Embed<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_embed_box\" id=\"powerpress_embed_18255-podcast\" style=\"display: none;\"><input id=\"powerpress_embed_18255-podcast_t\" type=\"text\" value=\"&lt;iframe src=&quot;https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2FEps61Refuge.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2Feps-61-co-leadership-male-female%2F&quot; scrolling=&quot;no&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; height=&quot;165&quot; frameborder=&quot;0&quot; id=&quot;blubrryplayer-2&quot; class=&quot;blubrryplayer&quot; title=&quot;Blubrry Podcast Player&quot;&gt;&lt;\/iframe&gt;\" onclick=\"javascript: this.select();\" onfocus=\"javascript: this.select();\" style=\"width: 70%;\" readOnly><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe to Spark My Muse <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/spark-my-muse\/id988423690?mt=2&amp;ls=1#episodeGuid=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D18255\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_itunes\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Apple Podcasts\" rel=\"nofollow\">Apple Podcasts<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/feeds.podcastmirror.com\/spark-my-muse\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_tunein\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on TuneIn\" rel=\"nofollow\">TuneIn<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/feeds.podcastmirror.com\/spark-my-muse\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/spark-muse-podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_more\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe to Spark My Muse\" rel=\"nofollow\">Subscribe to Spark My Muse<\/a><\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">SHOWNOTES<\/h2>\n<p>MIN 1<br \/>\nWhere I (Lisa) went to <a href=\"http:\/\/Evangelical.edu\" target=\"_blank\">Evangelical Seminary in Myerstown, PA.<\/a> Tony Blair is the President, a professor and the co-pastor of a church called <a href=\"http:\/\/hosannalititz.org\" target=\"_blank\">Hosanna! A Fellowship of Christians<\/a> in Lititz, Pennsylvania with female pastor Jo Ann Kunz.<\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-10062 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/09\/ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1.jpg\" alt=\"ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1\" width=\"250\" height=\"250\" srcset=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/09\/ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1.jpg 250w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/09\/ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1-200x200.jpg 200w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/09\/ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2012\/09\/ES-Blog-Contributor-Badge-250x250-1-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 250px) 100vw, 250px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>MIN 4:00<\/p>\n<p>Was there pushback when you began as equal partners in church leadership ten years ago at <strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.therefugeonline.org\" target=\"_blank\">the Refuge<\/a><\/strong>?<\/p>\n<p>6:20<br \/>\nUnderstanding co-pastoring. A team-planted the Refuge.<\/p>\n<p>8:10<br \/>\nEquality in Christ.<br \/>\nPeople assume they must be\u00a0married because they are co-pastors.<\/p>\n<p>10:30<br \/>\nHaving a restored image of God.<br \/>\nMen sometimes find women easier to share private things with.<\/p>\n<p>12:00<br \/>\nCircumcision is an old covenant (males only).<br \/>\nBaptism is a new covenant (open to both males and females).<\/p>\n<p>13:30<\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"http:\/\/www.faithcircus.org\" target=\"_blank\">Faith Circus<\/a>\u00a0&#8211; The podcast<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Makes space for talking about difficult things.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>14:40<\/p>\n<p>Unity not uniformity<\/p>\n<p>15:30<br \/>\nCovering the topic of abortion<\/p>\n<p>17:00<br \/>\nCreating connection<\/p>\n<p>18:00<br \/>\nreal conversations<\/p>\n<p>20:30<br \/>\nA culture of honesty.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Diversity is a reflection of God&#8217;s Kingdom&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>22:00<br \/>\nThe Gay Marriage issue that unfolded in their church<\/p>\n<p>26:00<br \/>\n&#8220;What&#8217;s your position?&#8221; is a tricky question\u2013a litmus test.<\/p>\n<p>32:00<br \/>\nThe Refuge writes doctrine in pencil so they can be reexamined.<br \/>\n&#8220;What we believe so far&#8230;&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>37:00 Next topics coming on <strong>Faith Circus<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>39:00<br \/>\nViolence and guns?<\/p>\n<p>Non violent communication<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nonviolentcommunication.com\/index.htm\" target=\"_blank\">Marshall Rosenberg<\/a><\/p>\n<p>42:00<br \/>\nTaking winning off the table. Use empathy and understanding.<\/p>\n<p>43:00<\/p>\n<p>We stop listening and we need to slow down to start thinking again.<\/p>\n<hr \/>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Thank you for listening today! I hope you subscribe and tune in again soon. Spark My Muse comes out TWICE a week.<\/p>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2FEps61Refuge.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2Feps-61-co-leadership-male-female%2F\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"100%\" height=\"165\" frameborder=\"0\" id=\"blubrryplayer-3\" class=\"blubrryplayer\" title=\"Blubrry Podcast Player\"><\/iframe><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_links_mp3\" style=\"margin-bottom: 1px !important;\">Podcast: <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/content.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/Eps61Refuge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_pinw\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Play in new window\" onclick=\"return powerpress_pinw('https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/?powerpress_pinw=18255-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Play in new window<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/media.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/content.blubrry.com\/spark_my_muse\/Eps61Refuge.mp3\" class=\"powerpress_link_d\" title=\"Download\" rel=\"nofollow\" download=\"Eps61Refuge.mp3\">Download<\/a> (Duration: 47:12 &#8212; 64.8MB) | <a href=\"#\" class=\"powerpress_link_e\" title=\"Embed\" onclick=\"return powerpress_show_embed('18255-podcast');\" rel=\"nofollow\">Embed<\/a><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_embed_box\" id=\"powerpress_embed_18255-podcast\" style=\"display: none;\"><input id=\"powerpress_embed_18255-podcast_t\" type=\"text\" value=\"&lt;iframe src=&quot;https:\/\/player.blubrry.com\/?media_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2Fcontent.blubrry.com%2Fspark_my_muse%2FEps61Refuge.mp3&amp;podcast_link=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2Feps-61-co-leadership-male-female%2F&quot; scrolling=&quot;no&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; height=&quot;165&quot; frameborder=&quot;0&quot; id=&quot;blubrryplayer-4&quot; class=&quot;blubrryplayer&quot; title=&quot;Blubrry Podcast Player&quot;&gt;&lt;\/iframe&gt;\" onclick=\"javascript: this.select();\" onfocus=\"javascript: this.select();\" style=\"width: 70%;\" readOnly><\/p><p class=\"powerpress_links powerpress_subscribe_links\">Subscribe to Spark My Muse <a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/spark-my-muse\/id988423690?mt=2&amp;ls=1#episodeGuid=https%3A%2F%2Flisadelay.com%2Fblog%2F%3Fp%3D18255\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_itunes\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Apple Podcasts\" rel=\"nofollow\">Apple Podcasts<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_spotify\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on Spotify\" rel=\"nofollow\">Spotify<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/subscribebyemail.com\/feeds.podcastmirror.com\/spark-my-muse\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_email\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe by Email\" rel=\"nofollow\">Email<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_tunein\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe on TuneIn\" rel=\"nofollow\">TuneIn<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/feeds.podcastmirror.com\/spark-my-muse\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_rss\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe via RSS\" rel=\"nofollow\">RSS<\/a> | <a href=\"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/spark-muse-podcast\/\" class=\"powerpress_link_subscribe powerpress_link_subscribe_more\" target=\"_blank\" title=\"Subscribe to Spark My Muse\" rel=\"nofollow\">Subscribe to Spark My Muse<\/a><\/p><p>Can males and females co-lead? Kathy and Karl talk about their journey in leadership and ministry and their new &#8220;Faith Circus&#8221; project\u2013high-wire conversations with the occasional elephant in the room.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":18258,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"audio","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5626],"tags":[649,6962,6964,6963,5667,42,2597,6965,5669,4179],"class_list":["post-18255","post","type-post","status-publish","format-audio","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spark-my-muse","tag-christian","tag-faith-circus","tag-gay-marriage","tag-karl-wheeler","tag-kathy-escobar","tag-leadership","tag-politics","tag-preston-sprinkle","tag-the-refuge","tag-violence","post_format-post-format-audio"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18255","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=18255"}],"version-history":[{"count":19,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18255\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":18300,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/18255\/revisions\/18300"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/18258"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=18255"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=18255"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/lisadelay.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=18255"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}