Eps 61: Co-Leadership, Male and Female

If you serve or cater to both men and women, it makes sense that you represent those people with both men and women in leadership. But, this is a very modern development. Event in many business sectors the lack of women in top positions of leadership continues to be a problem.

Reflecting a true image of humanity back to those we lead or serve in ministry shouldn’t be such a strange concept either, but it’s often rare and controversial in religious spheres.

 

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Today my guests are Kathy Escobar and Karl Wheeler, Co-Pastors for more than ten years of the Refuge, a mission center and Christian community near Denver, Colorado.

• They also have a new podcast called Faith Circus where they record their “big tent, high-wire conversations of faith, church, and life (and the occasional elephant in the room)”.

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kathy and Karl


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SHOWNOTES

MIN 1
Where I (Lisa) went to Evangelical Seminary in Myerstown, PA. Tony Blair is the President, a professor and the co-pastor of a church called Hosanna! A Fellowship of Christians in Lititz, Pennsylvania with female pastor Jo Ann Kunz.

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MIN 4:00

Was there pushback when you began as equal partners in church leadership ten years ago at the Refuge?

6:20
Understanding co-pastoring. A team-planted the Refuge.

8:10
Equality in Christ.
People assume they must be married because they are co-pastors.

10:30
Having a restored image of God.
Men sometimes find women easier to share private things with.

12:00
Circumcision is an old covenant (males only).
Baptism is a new covenant (open to both males and females).

13:30

Faith Circus – The podcast

Makes space for talking about difficult things.

14:40

Unity not uniformity

15:30
Covering the topic of abortion

17:00
Creating connection

18:00
real conversations

20:30
A culture of honesty.

“Diversity is a reflection of God’s Kingdom”

22:00
The Gay Marriage issue that unfolded in their church

26:00
“What’s your position?” is a tricky question–a litmus test.

32:00
The Refuge writes doctrine in pencil so they can be reexamined.
“What we believe so far…”

37:00 Next topics coming on Faith Circus

39:00
Violence and guns?

Non violent communication

Marshall Rosenberg

42:00
Taking winning off the table. Use empathy and understanding.

43:00

We stop listening and we need to slow down to start thinking again.


 

Thank you for listening today! I hope you subscribe and tune in again soon. Spark My Muse comes out TWICE a week.

Be Yourself. Everyone Else is Already Taken [Guest post from Kathy Escobar]

 

Kathy Escobar is a plucky spiritual formation-minded woman bearing God’s message…and she has a great time in the process. What a kindred spirit! Enjoy her contribution. How could you not, right?

Kathy co-pastors the refuge, an eclectic beautiful faith community in north Denver, juggles 5 kids & an awesome husband, advocates friends in hard places, and is a trained spiritual director who loves to teach and facilitate events, workshops, and groups.

Be Yourself. Everyone Else is Taken
-by Kathy Escobar 

“Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken” – Oscar Wilde

I first discovered what a “blog” was in 2006, when we planted The Refuge, the wild little faith community I am part of.  Honestly, I had never heard the word before; I had been immersed in a hectic ministry role that was very insulated from the wider church conversation and I just wasn’t online.  This transition from mega-church to small-church-plant was a messy one for me.  I was in a lot of pain from my experience, so I reached out online after stumbling across some blogs while searching for church website ideas.  I felt an instant and immediate sense of relief when I discovered I wasn’t crazy, and I wasn’t alone in some of my feelings.  I found others with similar stories & similar church dreams.

The men and women I read were honest, bold, raw, and pure.

They weren’t selling anything, trying to push their agenda, or attempting to make-people-come-over-to-their-way-of-thinking.

Rather, they just told their stories.  Shared their experiences. Responded to other people’s comments with simple kindness and respect. And above all, they remained honest about what they were wrestling with and learning along the way.

Reading their blogs gave me hope.

They inspired me.

They pointed me toward God (even when they were wrestling with God).

They challenged me to think.

January 1, 2008, I started my own blog and dedicated myself to two simple commitments:

1. Write as honestly and purely as I could without editing or trying to worry about what other people might think.

2. Write once a week for one year.

It’s been a wild ride, and I have learned so much through the process over the past 4 years.

Out of everything, I think blogging has helped me learn to become more comfortable in my own skin, with my own voice, with who I am.

I think that is a very holy and sacred experience on our spiritual journey–learning to find safety and security in who we really are.  

Not who someone else is.

Not who we think we should be.

But in who we are.

I am someone who has always struggled with the message that I wasn’t enough somehow–not spiritual enough, not quiet enough, not domestic enough, not skinny enough, not organized enough, not-whatever-enough.

Blogging definitely intersected with this message, initially making it even worse.

In the first few years of my blog, I had so much internal anxiety about not being good enough, funny enough, theological enough, wise enough, or concise enough.   Whatever “enough” it was, I wasn’t.

But something began to shift in the past several years as I continued to find my voice and become more comfortable in my own skin out here.

I began to realize that the world doesn’t need another _________ or __________ or __________ (Insert name of any bloggers you are jealous of, and my guess is they are wrestling with similar feelings and go a little psycho about the same insecurities).

What’s missing is me.

Not because without me the world would stop spinning or the blogosphere would come to a screeching halt.

But because everyone else is taken.  

I think God wants us to learn how to become comfortable in our own skin, to be who-we-are, and not try to become someone else.

Blogging is a great place to practice this.

Making peace with who-we-are requires the ongoing-work-of-the-Holy-Spirit.  I doubt and question it all of the time.  I obsess before I hit “publish” and freak out about not being more like ______ or _______ (insert name of other blogger also obsessing about the same thing).

I need God’s help to remind me:  “Um, Kathy, just so you know, in the big scheme of things, it’s just a blog post.  And one other thing:  it’s a great place to practice just being you–with all your strengths & all your weaknesses.  Just you.”

And then I hit “publish” and take a deep breath and am reminded yet again, this is what transformation looks and feels like.

This is how we get more comfortable in our own skin.    This is how we learn to offer ourselves grace.  This is how we become “us” and not someone else.

Yikes, it’s hard to learn!   But blogging is a great spiritual practice that can help integrate this important truth into deep places in our hearts.

Yeah, my spiritual guidance for all us bloggers is this:  Be ourselves.  Everyone else is taken.