All the ingredients were there for a splendid time of reflection, worship, and prayer. A beautiful unseasonably warm day, new blossoms, and a perfect metaphor for life: A Prayer Labyrinth.
It didn’t help.
I felt restless and distracted. Yes, I could appreciate the goodness surrounding me. I could also grasp the spiritual significance of the nearby metaphors and analogies. Yet, I didn’t have a time of felt connection with God. The word “dud” comes to mind. I didn’t get the experience I thought I would; and it all seemed ordinary and uninspired.
Here are some images I took during my time there. You have to admit, it was a delightful scene.
What this means:
Just a few thoughts…maybe you have some ideas too.
If God is a person (…is a Being, not just an impersonal Force, but rather has a personality, and is capable of relationship), then I really can’t expect God to follow a predictable formula like he is a math equation.
My other relationships function in a similar way. They aren’t clear cut and palpable. They are more opaque and protean. I wonder if God switches things up precisely so we don’t depersonalize him, (among other reasons, I’m sure).
In biblical narrative this rings true. The Hebrews are rescued by God in a different manner almost each time. Sometimes it was pitchers smashing that started the process, other times horns and shouting. Sometimes it was just typical military tactics.
I was okay with the fact that the spiritually nourishing experience I had at the Jesuit Retreat Center was nothing like my (seeming) dud of a prayer experience this time. In the past it might have felt like abandonment. I might have seconded guessed myself, or my God. I see the nuances now, perhaps. I can still believe God is there, and God is good, even when I don’t sense God’s presence. It would be the same way with a dear friend, or my spouse. If I had a blah sort of time with a friend, I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that the friendship didn’t exist. If I didn’t sense my husband was in the house, I wouldn’t assume we weren’t married.
When was a time when God didn’t show up when you thought God would?
Here’s a previous post explaining a prayer labyrinth. Have you ever used one?
On Rachel Evans blog, she invited readers to pose questions or curiosities to those of the Mormon faith.
I posed this question:
I heard a Mormon say they believe Jesus was a man (not a member of the Trinity). Trinitarian doctrine is a non negotiable focal point of the Christian statement of belief/faith, as the Nicene Creed (325 AD) affirms. My question: For what reasons, do Mormons consider themselves Christians?
First, let me state that I expect most people on this blog to already have strong, deeply held beliefs that are not going to change, so that my purpose is simply to foster understanding of LDS beliefs, not convert anyone. I will do my best not attack your beliefs (Latter-day Saints are very tolerant of the beliefs of others–attend LDS worship services for a year and I promise you will never hear a bad word uttered about another church or its beliefs). I will do my best to explain what Mormons believe and answer your questions. That may mean I have to agree to disagree much of the time with your beliefs, and I ask for the same consideration of my beliefs.
I can shed even more light on this, since I feel several people have unintentionally misstated our doctrine a little bit in the comments here, and I want to more fully explain the reasons why we consider ourselves Christians. We believe in God the Eternal Father (Elohim), and in His Son (who, before he was born of Mary, was Jehovah), and in the Holy Ghost. The Father and the Son have a (glorified, perfected) body as tangible as man’s, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit. We believe in a ‘pre-mortal’ life where we all lived as spirit children of our Father in Heaven. Jesus Christ, or Jehovah, as he was then, was the Firstborn of the spirit children of God. We are all brothers and sisters as a result, and Latter-day Saints call each other that at Church for this reason. We believe that Jesus was NOT just a man. He was and is God the Son–divine. The idea that Jehovah came and dwelt with us as Jesus Christ makes perfect sense to a Latter-day Saint, and we do not have to believe that God the Father and God the Son are one in the same essence to do so. As to the Nicene Creed, I might also add, “Which one?” Orthodox Christianity uses and has used many, many, many variations of the Creed starting from ancient times. That the essence of the Creed points to a Trinitarian, rather than a Godhead version of Christianity, I am not disputing, just pointing out that it is not as set in stone as Joseph Smith’s simple testimony: “I saw two Personages, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name, and said, pointing to the other, ‘This is my Beloved Son. Hear Him!” When Jesus Christ prayed in marvelous fashion in John 17: “O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was” he was literally praying to his Father–and our Father, too. Latter-day Saints have a ‘three-separate-but-one-in-purpose view of the Godhead, whereas Trinitarian Christianity sees God as having three personas. John 17 again illustrates beautifully the Mormon doctrine of the Godhead being “one”, as in purpose: “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.”
The fact remains, also, when Mormons say that Jesus died for our sins, they’re testifying of the same divine Savior–who was Jehovah in the Old Testament and we read about as Jesus Christ in the New Testament–as other Christians. The persona on which Jesus took after his ascension into Heaven is where Latter-day Saints begin to veer away from other Christians. We absolutely do not want to be Orthodox Christians–in fact an Apostle of our Church said in a conference address several years ago that we should qualify ourselves as ‘Christian, but different,’ because we do not want to be lumped in with Trinitarian Christianity. It is an important, fundamental distinction that we do not shy away from, and one that impels us to call ourselves Christians. The Atonement of Jesus Christ is central to our doctrine, and though I’m surrounded by loving protestants here in Pensacola, FL, who tell me that my Church is works-based, I will testify to you right now that no Mormon believes they can work themselves into Heaven on their own merits. The Book of Mormon is filled with verses that clearly state our need for a Savior, and that we must retain a remission of our sins. The best way I can describe it is that Latter-day Saints view repentance as a life-time pursuit, and that while the first time you exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, accept the gift of His Atoning sacrifice, and become a new creature in Christ, that is the beginning, not the end. We must endure to the end in faith, and continue to repent of our sins. We enter a covenant at that point–one that is set by Jesus Christ–that even though we may struggle our entire lives with sin, the point is that we continue to struggle–we endure, “relying wholly upon the merits of Him who is mighty to save” as it says in the Book of Mormon. No amount of ‘being good’ or ‘good works’ is going to earn anyone salvation, but a whole lot of repenting is required. Jesus Christ died for sins I haven’t even committed yet, but I cannot repent of sins I haven’t committed yet. I must ‘die daily’, as Paul said, knowing that the covenant with Jesus Christ under which I live my life is one that is personal and that no one else can judge my heart on that fateful Judgement Day as to whether or not my repentance was sincere. If you ask a Latter-day Saint if they’ve been saved you’ll get one of two responses: A blank stare (if they’re from out West and they’re not as used to being asked that question), or a firm “Yes” if they’re from the East (especially the South where I live where we’re used to being asked that by our friends). The point is that Latter-day Saints view salvation as a partnership with Jesus Christ where he did all of the work, and where we are supposed to accept that work throughout our lives through exercising faith in Him enough to repent of our sins. Any other covenants we make after baptism (such as those in LDS Temples) are secondary and only serve to reinforce this fundamental relationship with Jesus Christ.
Now, having said all of that, which is more than I intended to say but, perhaps, necessary to drive home the point of how and why we view ourselves as Christians (of the Godhead variety, if you will), I will say that I respect the view of the Trinity of other Christians, and understand why they would still claim that to be a Christian you have to have a proper understanding and belief of who he is first to be able to call yourself a Christian. Fine. Mormons are just as adamant about “know[ing] thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” but when we talk about that verse from John 17, it is not just about knowing the nature of God and Jesus Christ, but really ‘knowing’ God and developing a relationship with Jesus Christ through one’s daily Christian walk.
I found this to be one of the best explanations I’ve heard from a Mormon on their beliefs in God. Clearly there are many similarities between Mormonism and traditional Christianity; and yet some areas of large divergencies. (The Trinity doctrine, is but one example of this. We aren’t even getting into women being saved through marriage, having dominion over your own planet, and the archangel Moroni (which, strangely has NOTHING to do with pasta), among other things.)
But, this got me to thinking: Trinitarian ideas of God are tough sledding. They always have been.
In fact, the doctrine of the Trinity can be so mysterious and perplexing, that we can mentally switch into a mere abstraction. But, God is not a “thing”, of course. God is not merely a “Divine Essence” which contains manifestations of Father, Son, and Spirit, but rather God is a relational Being who functions as a Three-in-One Godhead.
So, to begin a dialogue on this, I submit to you a response from a friend, and reader, “Nicholas” of the blog Nicholas to Myra. Nicholas has weighed in with some insights of the nature of God. I invite you to submit your own thoughts, or responses as well.
From Nic:
God is not a Blob
The Trinity in not a mere Divine Essence, or blob-god. In fact, that view was condemned as heretical by the Christian Church in ancient times under the label of Sabellianism/Modalism.
Here’s the main reason why: The foundation of who God is does not lie in an abstract Essence. Rather, the Persons of Godare the foundation of God’s being, these Persons possessing a common Essence rather than being generated by it. This distinction prevents “blob-god” concept from rearing its ugly head, and assures that your relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is not a mere illusion or facade. Where, then, you might ask, is the source of the Godhead itself? All you’ve got to do is read the Gospel of John: It’s the Father.
Once you reject the blob-god, relationship with the real Trinity becomes accessible. Then, you take a new look at what St. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 13:14: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” In the early church, the Father was often referred to simply as “God”, with the understanding that God always existed with His Word and Spirit; being God’s own Word and Spirit, they were obviously not composed of a different Essence than He was or beneath Him in honor. Thus the unity of the Godhead is preserved.
The Judeo-Christian question is this: How do you get to God? The answer: Through His Word and in His Spirit. God has revealed Himself, the Father, through and in His Word and Spirit; Persons He actually is, not mere manifestations of an Essence. How much grander, therefore, is the statement of faith: “One of the Trinity suffered in the flesh”* when it is understood to mean that Jesus Christ, the Word, the subsistent Person of God Himself, truly suffered in the flesh for us.
I’ve found that everything in the Gospel means far more once one renounces blob-god… Try it! Let us all take comfort and be enlightened by that ancient doxology, in which the incomprehensible Mystery of God is declared:
“Glory to the Father through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, both now an ever and to the ages of ages, Amen.”
*The “Theopaschite” formula affirmed at the 5th Ecumenical Council.
So, my dear readers, comment on something you just read. Thanks!
From the poem of Mechthild (of Magdeburg, 13th century) translated “The Flowing Light of the Godhead” we get a fascinating picture of God-Three-in-One (in Book II).
God as Cupbearer
[Cupbearer] noun chiefly historical or poetic/literary
a person who serves wine, esp. in a royal or noble household.
At first blush it may seem insulting to consider God in this servant role. Yet, God has always treated his people like royalty. He has always been the God who serves.
Former slaves in Egypt, the wandering Israelites were to be donned in fashions or regalia of the priestly class, and participate in many temple priestly rites and rituals, no matter their social class or gender. Unlike the pagans gods of the region, Yahweh–the living God–instituted numerous festivals and feasts, not for his pleasure and consumption, but for his people to enjoy.
A cupbearer tastes the drink and food before the king does. Utmost loyalty and devotion are required. If food is spoiled or poisoned, the cupbearer will pay the price, saving the King from harm. Didn’t God do this for us with our sin?
A helpful image in worship and prayer may be to envision God (Trinity, three-in-one God) as Cupbearer, Cup (becoming a broken cup pouring out life for us, in the sacrifice of Jesus the Christ) and the Wine from the Cup, as the healing presence of the Holy Spirit.
It is because God has served us so well, become broken and died from the poison we should have gotten, that we may be healed and redeemed by his Spirit, like healing Wine.
Have you heard this comparasion before? Does this visual help you? why or why not?
I wanted to feature this fine Sermoneutics article because I’ll be bringing the concept of Trinity to my class this Sunday.
Sermoneutics is a weekly column authored by Doug Jackson. Before coming to South Texas School of Christian Studies, Dr. Jackson pastored churches for nearly twenty-five years. For more from Doug Jackson, check out his blog at djackson.stscs.org.
Click here for the Sermoneutics archive.
by Doug Jackson
Trinity Sunday,
2 Corinthians 13.11-14
The good news is that the Western church has conspired to disobey the clear command of Scripture. The bad news is that our disobedience obscures our doctrine.
Augustine warned that anyone who disbelieves the Trinity is in danger of losing his salvation . . . and that anyone who attempts to understand it is in danger of losing his mind! Actually the Trinity is one of those things, like fried crawdad tails or dancing or being in love, that one understands not by pondering but by experiencing.
“We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.” Athanasius puts it rather neatly but perhaps leaves us wondering how to pull off the tricky business of inhabiting what we believe. The doctrine makes us psychological heretics whose nerves don’t connect with our confession.
Paul takes a more practical tack, perhaps because he writes as a pastor and not as a theologian. Just before rapping out one of the clearest Trinitarian statements in all of Scripture, he lays a command on us: Greet one another with a holy kiss. That’s the injunction I am so glad the Church exiles to the exegetical antipodes along with head coverings for women and not boiling a kid in its mother’s milk.
I don’t like it when people hug me; you can imagine how I feel about kissing. And I claim apostolic authority on this one: C. S. Lewis shared my aversion. “It is one of my lifelong weaknesses,” he writes in his autobiography Surprised By Joy, “that I never could endure the embrace or kiss of my own sex.” But there it is, right in the Bible and everything.
See, the problem is that the Trinity states, not an abstract mathematical puzzle but a common-sense relational truth: God is love, and either the Almighty is the ultimate cosmic narcissist eternally self-involved, or God has eternally had Someone to love. And since only God is eternal it must be that the Father has eternally loved the Son, the Son has eternally loved the Father and the Spirit has eternally been that love. And therefore Christians can only study the Trinity by risking the sloppy business of loving one another. And because God makes us bodies we can only love with our bodies. Every hug that breeches my barriers brings me closer to inhabiting the unity of Trinity. Amplexo ergo creedo: I hug, therefore I get it.
In this light, it is interesting to note that this year Trinity Sunday falls on the same day as Juneteenth, a nationwide observance for African-Americans commemorating the day the Emancipation Proclamation actually took effect. Perhaps instead of breaking our brains over the complexities of cosmic calculus, we could study the Trinity by repenting of past segregations and handing out a few hugs across the barriers we have built throughout Christ’s body.
In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
-Doug
Collect
Father, Son and Holy Spirit, You are love from all eternity. Make us one as You are one, that in us the world may see the grace, love and fellowship of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Amen.
Benediction
May you be broken enough to help one another,
For wholeness comes from healing.
May you disagree enough to hear one another
For oneness comes from listening.
May you be lonely enough to hold one another
For touch defeats division and discord.
In the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ,
The love of God,
And the fellowship of the Holy Spirit,
Amen.
Alphonse Mucha's work here reminds me of Redeemed Humanity, the Bride of God's Only Son
Sometimes going to church doesn’t seem worth it. For heaven’s sake, wouldn’t it be better to just have breakfast with some family or friends, and forego irritating people, scheduling problems, overblown or petty dramas de jour, personality conflicts, politics, dodgy doctrinal positioning, and the rest of machine the local church can be? Is the Cracker Barrel growing a bit more more alluring each Sunday morning?
Seems like a no brainer, right?
If this is kind of thing is happening for you, in your local church, maybe church shopping is around the bend? Well, wait just a minute.Here are 5 Mistakes you can make (or have made) regarding your local church.
1. Making theological judgements for what are personal preferences.
2. Mistaking the “local church” for The Bride of Christ.
3. Misunderstanding the idea of “community.”
4. Implementing a consumer approach with the spiritual and transcendent.
5. Overlooking what is happening in the sacraments.
Being from a more independent faith tradition, I grew up with the sense that church, in the local setting, was mainly about worship and fellowship. Well, it is, but not in the small sense I understood it to be. Now a bigger view of Church guides my life, and my relationship with my God and Savior.
Simply put: Church is hardly about “the local church” or about any human individual.
Jesus saved humankind through his Bride the Church. That means our preferences have very little to do with what God is doing, and the workings of Church.
The Church is something universal, invisible AND visible, international, and local. It is bound by culture and history, and yet handily transcends them both. It may exist in a location temporarily, but exists eternally in every location. Yes, it’s bigger, in every way than you think, or have the ability to imagine.
We apprend it in such tiny ways at times…
Perhaps, we get caught up or annoyed by such things a personalities, worship styles, programs, or issues related to our doctrinal formulations, opinion, or personal preference.
We may go “church shopping” and miss the point completely.
How correct to say, “Church is not about me.”
It’s about WE.
In the sacraments, the community of God (Trinity) intertwines with the community of man (humanity). We receive divine grace. God is with us. God is with his Bride, the Church. Locally the church celebrates what the collection of Christians, past, present, and future is enacting, together.
Each Sunday, worldwide, Christ’s Bride gathers, and meets together. The church is with “him”, as it has done from the beginning.
Even as the earth spins, the variances in time zones cause prayer without ceasing, and the fellowship and communion of the saints occur, globally.
And with Christ, Father, and Spirit, we celebrate the reality of koinwnia (koinonia) with the Divine. Thomas Aquinas wrote, “the Eucharist is the sacrament of the unity of the Church, which results from the fact that many are one in Christ.”[7] (Eucharist means thanksgiving.) Koinwnia is what Christ exercised divinely with humanity, by grace, through his work in his ministry, on the cross, and in his resurrection. It is how we commune with each other, and worship God in Spirit and Truth.
Through a local church body, we live out, and enact the Gospel and participate the actual in-breaking of the Kingdom of God here on earth. The local church is people, and people are flawed. What God has done, is doing, and will continue to do, is not.
This whole concept is all summed up nicely in the Apostles Creed, in which followers of Christ unite in spirit and truth. Many of us may not know the creeds, or declare them together with other Christians. But, this particular creed, well-established in the 300s A.D. (C.E.), and is the/a manifesto (see ref. link) of the Bride. It is a speak-act and agreement of followers of the divine Father, Son, and Spirit, for a way of living and being; and understanding the world.
To take this creed fully to heart will expand your idea of church, unify you with Christians of the last 2,000+ years, and may even help you forebear with the frailties of local church you attend, here and now.
From the Book of Common Prayer –
I believe in God the Father Almighty,
Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell;
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost;
The holy Catholick Church;
The Communion of Saints;
The Forgiveness of sins;
The Resurrection of the body,
And the Life everlasting.
Amen.
