After you read these 7 considerations (from Scot’s post), will you please comment here?
1. Theodicy: how does God deal with evil if it, in effect, exists for ever in a hell-state? Does evil not continue to exist, even in spite of the statement in Revelation 21:1-4 that death and suffering will be no more? So, the issue here is squaring God’s goodness with eternal evil.
2. Eternal hopelessness: a traditional hell does not permit any hope after death for anyone, including those who have never heard. Is there a law that says God’s grace can only be active in the temporal sphere — that is, during our physical lifetime?
3. Eternal evil: does not the traditional view entail the view that God never really does purge his world of evil?
4. Justice vs. Love: the issue here is an old one. If God is love, how does justice fit in with that love. Is God ambivalent or split? An image of God that emerges for many is a cruel father who guides people to think of eternal punishment as an act of love.
5. Eternal divine violence: assumptions are that punishment is an act of violence and eternal punishment would mean God is eternally violent. She connects this view of God with acts of violence in history. She thinks God’s violence contradicts God’s love.
6. Retributive justice: again, a major issue is that God’s justice in the Bible — in Christ — is restorative but hell is a belief in a retributive justice that never becomes restorative.
7. Eternal punishment for temporal sin: how can it be just to punish a human being, who sinned temporally — that is over a life time (and no more), for an eternity for that temporal sin?
There’s a feeling you can get, after you’ve done something horrible. It’s so bad, that you might consider poking your own eye out (if for nothing else than a viable distraction.)
My first job (besides babysitting) was as a hostess at Eat’n Park Family Restaurant. A woman about 10 years older transferred there. She had been a waitress for a long time (even a decorated one. Yes, Eat’n Park is special like that.) She also had the name “Lisa,” just like me. That’s about all the ingredients needed for good communication and lasting friendship, right? um. No.
Background:
Sometimes I’d goof off and crack jokes in passing with Lisa. No big deal. (If you know me, this is all highly typical behavior.)
WELL-
One day, like a stoke of non genius, it came into my head to wisecrack when I noticed Lisa had a blue pen scribble on her forearm. I noticed it was actually a very sloppily rendered mark of her own name. The “L” was super long on the bottom, and not in a cursive way. It was just odd. It struck me as humorous. I already knew she had a 4 year old daughter. Her little girl had probably been playing with her waitressing pen and wrote out her mom’s name all by herself. Or maybe Lisa had done it–for a joke, or because she was bored. So, feeling my comic Einstein vibe coming on me (which is inversely proportionate to my rational thought and good judgment), I said–rather flippantly, I might ad–“Hey, what’s that on your arm? Is that so you don’t forget your name?”
Sudden. Dead. Powerful stare.
Awkward pause. I could hear a spider near the salad bar blink.
Then I noticed she had a sort of sad “How could you, you freaking jerk?” look on her tired face. (I picked up on that because I’m really good at feeling people out!)
It was a tattoo.
A horrible one.
A mistake.
Perhaps a drunk boyfriend or trashed stepdad scrawled it there. Who knows. But whatever the story was, it was part of a painful past. A past she did not want thrown in her face by some stupid and insensitive quip from a dumb teenager.
My heart froze with panic. It’s the kind of panic where you start to smell yourself. A cold sweat mustache erupts on your lip usually, too
.
Would she stab me with a steak knife?
Plan to burn me “accidentally” with a scrod entrée platter? (Wicked hot, they are!)
I fumbled around, and got out, “um… hahah… I’m just kidding.” I was trying desperately to appear nonchalant. I considered whistling a tune to prove it.
Still, she just looked at me–steadily.
“I’m sorry,” I said, getting up the nerve. It felt like a blanket of shame washed over me. Self-loathing–all over the place.
She shook it off, and went back to work. From then on I tried to be extraordinary nice to her, in every way I could think of. I bused her tables, and got her refreshing beverages, and tried to be as pleasant, and positive as I could. She didn’t hold it against me, beyond a day or so.
Once, after a 10p.m.-5 a.m. shift when my dad failed to pick me up, she even drove me home in her weary beater of a car.
I still wonder about her.
It was poke-your-eye-out shame.
I’ll never forget it.
Have you ever had “inner death by shame”? (you can just answer yes or no, unless you want to be brave and tell your story)
After over a 7 year break from music, Jennifer Knapp announces the release of her new album, and reveals her same sex relationship of 7 years in an interview with Christianity Today. (full article)
What will her fans do? How will she be treated in the Christian community?
Here’s my proposal:
Let the Judgment Begin!
(on ourselves)
Ask yourself a few important things:
What in your life should you look at more deeply?
If you like to come up with decisions about people, is it to make you feel better? And what other ways could work better?
What is your hidden payoff for taking the focus off your growth to focus on someone else’s shortcomings?
Are you hospitable?
Are you welcoming?
Are you loving?
Are you gracious with the same amount of grace you’ve been given?
Could these areas improve?
Let’s get serious, and List a few ways how we could work toward our own improvement, through God’s grace.
What does speaking any ill of Jennifer Knapp do for our practice of hospitality?
Or, for our Christ-likness?
Or, for our growing in the Love of Christ?
Do Christians HAVE TO be the best at shooting our own wounded ones?
Please, I beg you, no.
Let us enter into a concerted time of Spirit-led introspection, discovery, confession (to both God and each other), repentance, accountability, and ongoing, loving discipleship–in unity.
Sometimes these types of personal revelations seem interesting or fascinating–along the lines of scandal, intrigue, and excitement. Yet, it’s dangerous to fixate with our idle curiosity on public figures, like Knapp, or the ordinary people we know. It’s distracting. It misses the lesson. It skirts the point of the Kingdom.
The truth is, men and women like Knapp are in pews, or they are afraid to be, and they are on the fringes. They feel like they have to choose between being secretive, or being pushed out of the church community. If we had Christ-like hospitality, we would know about them. We would walk *with* them, not just talk *about* them.
But more importantly, if we weren’t so concerned about Knapp, in a judgmental way, we could do the deeper, and far harder work of looking within, and allowing God to work his sanctifying agency.
I pray no one vilifies Jennifer, rejects her, or condemns her. But, I think it will happen. The temptation is just so irresistible. Laying waste to those anything like Knapp is so common, that it hardly seems wrong to our conscience, in general. We have this corny idea of righteous indignation, to give us motivation. But guess what? It’s more irresistible to gossip under the cover of righteous indignation, and far more common than same gender attraction! If we only had righteous indignation for our own problems, first, or ever! Imagine the spiritual growth then.
I don’t think we should applaud her, or marginalize her, but rather know that her journey is neither yours, or mine, directly. When I think of her, I think of the words Jesus said.
Matt.9:11-12When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?” On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.”
BUT-Here’s the distinction. I know this verse is about me. If you don’t realize you need God, and you need help, well, you won’t get any.
Besides that, It saddened me to read that in the article with CT, Jennifer said she was not involved in a church family now. We all need community, to be our best. What could be more beneficial to her than to be surrounded and supported by brothers and sisters in the faith? She dearly loves God. She continues to sing to him, and seek him, unabashedly. Now is not the time to focus on her particular statements, though. We have greater work to do. It’s the kind where personal change is truly possible–the kind within ourselves.
Let us love one another, for everyone who does not love, does not know God.
Long ago, singer/song writer, Bob Dylan sang that we’ve all “gotta serve somebody.” Nothing could be truer. Dylan wasn’t preaching, he was capturing the human condition.
Look at anybody you know, or watch a few people for a while. What do they love? What do they work for? What do they invest in? Of course, ask yourself the very same questions, because your answers are the ones that start the thoughts and insights that produce growth, or betterment.
Whatever someone starts to love or invest time and effort into, that very thing becomes their master. (It owns them, etc.) It becomes the object of their worship.I realize this sounds negative, but that is not what I’m shooting for here. It’s just an observation. But notice how, a kind of power or attention shift happens, like it or not.
It’s true with hobbies, goals, money making, fitness, drugs, career, relationships, material wealth, fame, ministry, and yes, God. So, what ever it is we love or enjoy had better be the best master, the most good, or the highest way, so when (not if, but when) it soon rules us, the fit will be for our good, not ill, because, “you gotta serve somebody.” We’d like to think we’ve mastered independence, and we make our own decisions, but what we love (worship, adore, spend time on) influences us. And that’s that. (I got folksy on you, at the last second.)
You can tell so much about you, if you write down 10 adjectives that best describe the thing (person, item, idea) that you love best or put most of your time into, (like a strategy, trade, or discipline). Give it a try if you don’t believe me. If you leave 10 adjectives in the comments section (answering honestly), even if I don’t know you, I’ll reply and tell you something about you. (Or, maybe it’s more than you want to know. lol.)
Interestingly, it’s those who that say they love God, for instance, when they describe God as judgmental, angry, and so forth, they are really describing a god they have worshiped, which is different than the Being who made, loves, and redeemed us.
They also describe who they have become. We become that which we serve and worship. If we adore an ungracious god, we become ungracious. However, in this case, we are not worshiping the Living God.
(I’d love to hear your thoughts or comments; and if you were tagged to read this, thank you for reading and responding in a way that best suits you.)
