Eps 181: The Way Up is Down; Guest, Marlena Graves

My conversation today is with Marlena Graves about her book “The Way Up is Down: Becoming Yourself by Forgetting Yourself”. (Like me, Marlena is originally from Puerto Rico and grew up in Pennsylvania. Her Spanish is way better though.) She’s a professor, an activist, has worked in ministry, and authored a number of books. Now working on her PhD. at Bowling Green University in Ohio.  Stop by the extras page to get all the show notes and links HERE: https://www.patreon.com/posts/39670162 😃. (patreon.com/sparkmymuse | Episode 181)

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Eps. 161: Where is your poverty? Guest, Terence Lester

My guest is Terence Lester, activist, author, speaker, and founder of Love Beyond Walls.

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Eps 122: Time Travel and Holy Purposes, guest Gene Stevenson

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Today’s guest is Gene Stevenson.

 

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EPS 44: What is Communal Living Like? (guest Tammy Perlmutter)

Welcome to Spark My Muse! I love that you’re here.

Friday episodes are longer conversational ones with guests. Find the full list here.

Wednesday episodes are shorter, potent ones called “Soul School”. Find the full list here.

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Could you live with others communally and share everything in common? Money. Food. Living Space. Possessions. Goals. Identity. Your Future. Many of us may extoll the virtues of community but have minimal exposure with a lived-out experience. Tammy Perlmutter lives in a commune with her daughter and husband and you’ll learn her story today.


 

TO HEAR PART 2 -recorded as a followup- CLICK HERE


The longing for tight social bonds is so primal that even when the people we trust most betray us, we will seek out other opportunities for the solace of those connections until we find them.

tammyTammy Perlmutter is a talented creator who lives with the intentional community of Jesus People USA, a commune of Christians that dates back over 40 years.

From Tammy’s website:

I’m an East Coast girl at heart, born and raised in Philadelphia, but (for the second time!) called to Chicago for ministry. I live and work with Jesus People USA, an intentional Christian community of 200 members, living together in the historic 10-story Chelsea Hotel. We are rooted in the Uptown neighborhood, described as “Twenties Charm Meets Psych Ward with No Walls,” to love and serve the homeless, disciple believers, and be a presence for Christ in Chicago. I have lived communally for 15 years, and even with all its challenges and hardships, I consider myself beyond blessed to experience authentic, organic community in all its crazy, chaotic richness.

100_0870
ministries of JPUSA (coffee shop, skate shop, gallery)

From wikipedia:
Jesus People USA
 (JPUSA) is a Christian intentional community of 250 [this number is Lisa’s edit] people [1] in Uptown, on the North Side of Chicago, Illinois. It was founded in 1972,[2] coming out of Jesus People Milwaukee in the Jesus Movement, it is the largest of the few remaining communes from that movement. In 1989, JPUSA joined the Evangelical Covenant Church[3] as a member congregation, and currently has three pastors credentialed with the ECC. The community organized the former annual Cornerstone Festival.[4]  (Click for wikipedia entry for JPUSA),

The group’s long-term existence and historic roots in the 1960s make it, according to sociologist Shawn Young, one of the most contemporary significant groups from the Jesus Movement era:

Founded in 1972, this community is one of the most significant surviving expressions of the original Jesus Movement of the sixties and seventies and represents a radical expression of contemporary countercultural evangelicalism. JPUSA’s blend of Christian Socialism, theological orthodoxy, postmodern theory and ethos of edgy artistic expression (as demonstrated at their annual music festival) prove what some scholars have longed suspected: evangelicalism is a diverse, complex movement, which simply does not yield to any attempt at categorization. [

 

The building where Tammy lives:

920_W_Wilson

MIN 1:
INTRO

MIN 3:00

Tammy’s upbringing: living for 13 years in foster care around inner city Philadelphia and then a residential facility and being a lost girl.

MIN 10:00

How does Tammy think cycles of instability, abuse and addiction get broken and redeemed?

How hope happens?

11:00

Mentoring

Humiliation and despair.

12:00

A turning point when her case was turned over to Bethana social workers.

Being seen and heard for the first time.

13:00

Escaping into books and starting to write using the bookend papers.

15:30

Finding an intentional community (commune) JesusPeopleUSA

16:00

Cornerstone Festival and the rigged drawing

17:30

Being suicidal and living a dangerous lifestyle.

20:00

Keeping her promise about answering any question.

Finding a home instead of rejection.

22:30

Choosing a new life and the spiritual warfare battles she experienced at that point.

24:30

Being attracted to a Jewish East Coaster who she eventually married.

25:30

The Jews for Jesus experience that took them away from the community.

27:30

The deal to move back to Chicago and things feeling hopeless.

31:00

Being made for community and belonging.

33:30

Businesses that support the community and the ministries.

JPUSA.org

38:00

The History of Uptown Chicago

• Green Mill Lounge

• Al Cappone

Being a voice for the poor.

The only family shelter in the city.

The tent community nearby.

43:00

Vocation as a theme

Building community and being downwardly mobile as vocation.

46:00

A calling on our lives.

The gift of going first.

The Mudroom

Raggle Tangle: Invest in the Mess.

49:00

Making room for the mess


If you liked the episode please share it!

If this topic interests you, listen to the episode with activist Shane Claiborne who started the intentional inner city community in Philadelphia called The Simple Way. HEAR that here. 

Episode 17 Shane Claiborne on the hunger for community

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Evangelical Seminary is proud to host Shane’s talk. Click the image and learn more about a school that teaches and promotes incarnational servant leadership at a core level.


Shane’s Bio:

Shane Claiborne graduated from Eastern University and did graduate work at Princeton Seminary. In 2010, he received an Honorary Doctorate from Eastern. His adventures have taken him from the streets of Calcutta where he worked with Mother Teresa to the wealthy suburbs of Chicago where he served at the influential mega-church Willow Creek. As a peacemaker, his journeys have taken him to some of the most troubled regions of the world – from Rwanda to the West Bank – and he’s been on peace delegations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Shane is a founder and board member of The Simple Way, a faith community in inner city Philadelphia that has helped birth and connect radical faith communities around the world. He is married to Katie Jo, a North Carolina girl who also fell in love with the city (and with Shane). They were wed in St. Edwards church, the formerly abandoned cathedral into which homeless families relocated in 1995, launching the beginning of the Simple Way community and a new phase of faith-based justice making.

Shane writes and travels extensively speaking about peacemaking, social justice, and Jesus. Shane’s books include Jesus for PresidentRed Letter RevolutionCommon PrayerFollow Me to FreedomJesus, Bombs and Ice CreamBecoming the Answer to Our Prayers – and his classic The Irresistible Revolution. He has been featured in a number of films including “Another World Is Possible” and “Ordinary Radicals.” His books are translated into more than a dozen languages. Shane speaks over 100 times a year, nationally and internationally.

His work has appeared in Esquire, SPIN, Christianity Today, and The Wall Street Journal, and he has been on everything from Fox News and Al Jazeera to CNN and NPR. He’s given academic lectures at Harvard, Princeton, Brown, Liberty, Duke, and Notre Dame. Shane speaks regularly at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe. Follow him online at:

Facebook: ShaneClaiborne
Twitter: @ShaneClaiborne

 


Shownotes (with links) from my conversation with Shane Claiborne

MIN 4:00

About 15 years ago Shane Claiborne and a few friends founded The Simple Way in the poorest section of Philadelphia where drug and sex trafficking became the main “industries” when the factories closed. Ever since then, he and his friends have been living in a communally within the neighborhood and serving the residents there in many ways.

I ask Shane, How have they sustained their communal lifestyle for so long?

Shane shares some things that have helped:

1. We are not attached what it should look like in expression or form as much as we have chosen to love each other and Jesus well and allow community to flow out of that.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“If you are in love with your vision for community you will actually destroy it.”

2. Allowing it to change over the years, from a house with 12 people sleeping all over the place in one house with one bathroom to a village of 10 or 20 houses all in the same neighborhood.

3. Helpful wisdom from the outside from others who’ve been doing communal living for a long time (The Benedictine order, for instance: 1,600 years)

6:10

What is “new monasticism” anyway? Shane explains.

6:30

“Folks are really hungry for community.”

7:20

“In Western culture we’ve lost the art of community.”

In other parts of the world this is how people have survived.

7:40

Economically impoverished communities can be community-rich (places) because they need each other.

7:50

“It’s no coincidence that in some of the richest places in the world we have the highest rates of loneliness..and depression, and suicide.”

8:00

“We are made to love and be loved.”

8:20

Even the mega-churches put in a lot of effort into making small groups work well (because that’s how you find community).

8:40

New Monasticism (as lived out in the U.S. or other wealthy Western countries) connects us with an ancient practice that continues on (and is “life as normal”) in many places in the world.

9:20

What communal living in Christian communities looks like in different contexts…

“Sometimes it’s about renouncing materialism and the Kardashians.”

10:00

What happens when people pilgrimage to The Simple Way to learn what it’s about.

Click for resources from The Simple Way

10:30

On the romantic notions of The Simple Way…

Mother Teresa said, “Calcuttas are everywhere if we only have eyes to see. Find your Calcutta.”

11:00

There is a wisdom in learning from other communities. Shane and others set up a network called the community of communities on the web which lists other communities like his. Example: Reba Place Chicago.

11:35

MissionYear.org

This way can get rid of the romanticism and allow people to experience communal living first-hand.

Monthly open houses at A Simple Way are on ramps (to learn about community).

12:20

It’s about not just believing the doctrinal statements but about living differently and finding out what that looks like.

13:15

We are called to not be conformed to this world. God wants us to use our gifts and talents.

“Non conformity doesn’t mean uniformity.”

13;30

On the 2007 fire that destroyed his home and many other homes–leaving about 100 families with nowhere to sleep and live. Shane was left in need within the community he helped.

The very surprising statement the Red Cross relief worker told him.

14:00

There are 700 abandon factories and 20,00 abandon houses nearby.

15:30

Their community has built a park, a greenhouse, green spaces for gardens. See photos at TheSimpleWay.org

16:20

How the neighborhood pulled together after the devastating fire of 2007.

16:40

Shane:
As Jesus said, “Don’t worry about tomorrow. Don’t stock up your treasure that moths… and fires… can burn up and destroy.”

17:10

Ministry is mutual and if we don’t have needs we can’t be blessed. (Lisa)

18:30

One of Shane’s favorite quotes:

“If you’ve just come to help me, you’re wasting your time. But, if you’ve come because your survival and mine are bound up together, then let’s hold hands and we’ll work together.”

18:40

This quote comes in and corrects the posture by which we’ve often come on a mission to help people and thinking with a wrong perspective.

19:20

His friend says, “We are born on third base, but we think we’ve hit a triple.”

21:30

We don’t need has much as we think we do.

21:40

On Shane’s take of the story of “the rich young ruler”:
He wants to inherit the kingdom (entitlement thinking).

(QUICK LINK: Read the short Bible story HERE.)

22:10

“For folks that are independent and self-sustaining it’s hard for us to know that we need God and other people.”

22:30

Independence is not a gospel value. We need interdependence. It’s good to need other people and to need God.”

23:30

Besides people wondering what happened to his dreadlocks, people ask Shane this question the most.

24:20

Sometimes we have to challenge our location. (The places) where we (live) end up or are built around (that which) counters (opposes) gospel values. Like “suburban sprawl” which was created to get away from the urban problems (we should work to fix) and keep us from doing good for others who need it most.

It’s about living a life, not where we do great things, but where we do small things with great love (Mother Teresa). It’s not how much we do, but how much love we put into every act (of serving God).

25:00

We must ask:

What are my skills and passions and how might they connect to this world’s pain and injustice?

Whether it’s being a doctor, lawyer, plumber, or whatever, simply do your part.

26:00

What REALLY happens to the “dreds”.


 

Thank you, Shane! Blessings to you and your work. May we find our place to do good too.


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