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Today my guest is New Zealander, Barry Pearman. He’s a former-Chaplain to people with dealing with mental health issues, a gardener, and a writer (among other things). His work centers around helping people find healing and mental wellness through connection and spiritual formation. He too struggles with depression. (The beautiful garden image featured is some of Barry’s gardening work.)
For more information and show notes for today’s show, click here!
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DETAILS:
• Each FRIDAY, guests join me in a conversation.
• Come back each Wednesday
(on “Hump Day” aka Midweek) for a brief Soul School “lesson”–something for your interior world and common life.
Today, my guest is a follow podcaster and blogger Ryan J. Bell. Ryan came into some notoriety when he, as a Seventh Day Adventist Pastor, decided to blog about living a year without God and he gained a large following as a columnist on Huffington Press as well. What happened next and what he’s up to now makes for an interesting story. Listen in.
prophetic interpretation and end times predictions
lost truths that mainstream Christianity left behind.
MIN 6:00
He started reading theology that differed from the framework he came from. It was less restrictive and exclusive toward others.
9:00
Atheism and the blog “A Year Without God” started in January 2013
9 month break,
Spiritual but not religious, American, individualism version of spiritual experience: “Everybody is having their own private isolated experience of wonder.”
Religion for Atheists – Alain de Botton
He submitted his idea of “middle space–between belief and non belief” for the Huffington Post Religion Page and it was very popular.
15:00
People approached him because they didn’t have anyone to talk to about their doubts and questions.
Space for dark spots of doubt.
19:00
Do you hang on to any spiritual practices or vestiges of your old life?
Coming to a centered place in the now and in focused and non judgmental way and noticing feelings.
22:00
What have you done with “The Big Other” and the baggage from your upbringing?
Do you have gratitude toward the Big Other, or how is it expressed?
Not locating a destination for his gratitude.
26:00
Morality of an atheist. Being good for goodness sake.
A bottom up thinker
27:00
Draw to Judaism because it had created a theology around a community not a community out of a theology.
Judaism: Built around love, work, sex, food–the whole life lived.
Norms and wrong & right
29:00
Why he started the Life After God podcast
The response to the question:
“How do we community, both online and in person, in both groups and one-on-one, ….to help people around their changing viewpoints.”
Dealing with the challenges and life issues after a life where people stop believing in God.
32:30
A community of revolt coheres poorly. -Lisa
Atheists that move into Humanism (a secular moral philosophy to guide life)
BIO: Nicole Unice is on staff at Hope Church in Richmond, Virginia, and the author of the breakout book: “She’s Got Issues” which she wrote from her counseling and ministry experiences. The book produced and encouraged a refreshing and radical honesty that she’s built on in her new book “Brave Enough”.
Enjoy the Shownotes and links below and please share this with friends that you know CAN be “Brave Enough“. Thanks for listening!
#GetBraveEnough
xo
~Lisa
P.S. Would you like to get a special, cozy Spark My Muse t-shirt?
on the Richmond VA place and new midtown location.
1:30
Nicole’s podcasting experience (the Becoming Podcast) doing hundreds of episodes with her pastor doing 15 minutes shows for commuters.
Lisa asks: Is “campus” a Christian code word for mega church?
2:40
How she grew with Hope Church for 18 years, as they started out small in an elementary school “cafetorium”.
3;50
The “Youth Lodge” plans and the unique setting with wetlands and hills.
5:10
On the importance of Beauty, Setting, and Art in architecture and church building planning to evoke the imagination, inspire awe, and connect with the heart.
6:40
Collaborative workspace, and place where kids can do their homework and where people can enjoy the time away in a beautiful setting.
7:40
“artist come through the side door of the soul and preachers come through the front door.”
8:50
The history of the church and Christian tradition is one where the Church is source of beauty, wonder and connected to art because God is a the Creator.
9:40
Her first book: She’s Got Issues
6 main issues women (and men) face that can be a hinderance.
A rich relationship with God can come to a dead end as the ways we do life stop working.
12:00
How was it received? The #1 thing Nicole heard was, “You’re so honest.”
Why would honesty be such a revolution in Christianity?
12:40
She leaned into that for her next book “Brave Enough”
13:00
The story of how she got the title for the book:
To the question, “Do you think you can be brave?” Lucy Pevensie in the Chronicles of Narnia says, “I think I can be brave enough.”
14:35
Few women will self-identify as brave. [and not many men will either]
“After we identify the hinderances, what does it look like to walk forward in freedom?”
15:00
Brave Enoughis about Grace and its effects, inside and in action.
15:40
Nicole answering the question: Do men have the same problems in this area?
16:00
“Women hearing teaching from women is like hearing in your first language.”
16:30
Ways Nicole leads and teaches men.
17:00
on how women have to translate teaching from men into their “language” and context.
18:00
On how, similarly, Brené Brown was challenged (by a man) to include men in her writing and teaching. (Lisa)
18:40
How men and women have similar vulnerabilities though they might deal with them differently.
19:40
“up speak” tones in language in women and men revealing different insecurities. (Lisa)
21:00
Nuggets from the Brave Enough book:
How the ingredients mixed into something she didn’t expect. It follows a narrative “arch of the heart”. How we can be full and free and confident in life.
22:30
on why (inner) freedom is illusive for men and women.
On “Fake Grace” in our head. (the excuses we make or how we blame others). Inviting God/Jesus into those places.
24:10
We all (default) and go back to rules and laws and how to short circuit that pattern.
It’s about resetting the heart with a new spiritual reality.
25:00
Radical honesty about our ugly parts inside the heart.
25:30
Nicole’s Parable: The violently stopping of the elevator door…(and how it relates to our soul).
26:10
Open ourselves to God’s Presence and healing.
26:10
(Lisa) God uses what bothers us about other people is a mirror of what we don’t like in ourselves.
27:20
How our baggage works to impede our progress.
Brave Enough includes major parts on forgiveness
28:00
God’s breathing on us and giving us the mission of forgiveness, first.
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Shownotes for Episode 13 Wine lovers have God to thank + guest Doug Jackson
First, I want to feature the book Doug and I wrote …
entitled Dog in the Gapbecause of a C.S. Lewis quote “Man and his dog close a gap in the universe”.
And there’s a BONUS EDITION with lots of goodies!
Read a sample here!
Will you fan the spark?
Inspired by how musician Amanda Palmer put it, “Don’t make people pay [for art]. Let them,” I am altering how Spark My Muse stays alive…from bottom to top (literally).
How does it work?
It’s up to you. I need at least $75 per episode to keep it solvent. Every little bit helps! So, I invite you to just listen, read, and give as you can.
Thank you! Enjoy the show!
With love,
~Lisa
WINE SEGMENT:
Who do we have to thank for wine?
God and the Church, actually.
Wine lovers in Western civilization have the Church in Europe (and the Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire–which was neither holy nor Roman ) to thank for the large-scale production, the prevalence and the excellence of wine!
Why?
Because liturgy involving wine for communion was central to Christian religious practice. Wine was ingested as the saving holy blood of Christ (and bread as the holy body of Christ), usually each and every day. The sacraments of Communion served as saving grace afforded to the Church.
As Roman Empire became officially a Christian Empire (circa 313 CE) many vineyards had to be planted, properly cultivated, and harvested. Grapes had to be made into a lot of to support the daily practice of communion throughout the Empire.
Communion served as wine was the norm among Christians world-wide until recently–in the era of pasteurization. To keep juice from grapes in a state were they would not ferment meant it had to be sufficiently boiled so the natural yeast would die.
Vehemently opposed to alcohol, Thomas Bramwell Welch, a physician, dentist, and Methodist pastor from Vineyard, New Jersey, figured out the process in 1869 with Concord grapes. Most churches did not accept the switch as proper and stayed with wine.
The juice later became more popular during Victorian era because of prominent values of abstinence. A shift then began in the U.S. that made grape juice the main communion beverage (at least among certain Protestants sects).
Several hundred vineyards operating in Europe today can trace their history to monastic origins.
In the 9th-15th centuries almost 1,000 monasteries dotted Europe. They were centers of education, stability, and technical innovation. Monks and nuns could read and write–this was quite uncommon then.
Monasteries cared for the sick, helped the poor, created places of education, and invented Universities. They could not fund all this through donations. Surplus wine was sold to finance ministry work (and also beer, fruit brandies, and cheese, among many other things..even prayers and Salvation ..which–in hindsight–appears to have been a mistake ) .
So, basically, thank God (and many monks) for wine!
Sparking your muse
Enjoy the fantastic chat with Doug Jackson!
Douglas Jackson, D.Min. Director of the Logsdon Seminary Graduate Program
Doug Jackson came to SCS in 2006, after serving as pastor of Second Baptist Church, Corpus Christi, since 1993. In addition to teaching courses, Dr. Jackson functions as a liaison between Logsdon Seminary and local churches in Corpus Christi. His areas of specialization include spiritual formation and pastoral ministry. Dr. Jackson has published and presented several articles and essays in religious and literary venues, including articles and lectures on the life and writings of C.S. Lewis. • D.Min. – Truett Seminary (2006) • M.Div. – Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary (1985) • B.A. – English Literature, Grand Canyon College (1982)
A resource he is using by NT Wright – “The new perspective on Paul”
The covenant people God has saved.
8:50
Reformers and the necessary correction in contemporary times.
9:00
Confronting individualism
and thoughts on human flourishing.
9:50
on the idea of being “spiritual but not religious”
10:30
on his work about CS Lewis
Mere Christianity
11:00
The importance of imagination for understanding that isn’t covered by rationalism.
12:30
on his Oxford lecture Owen Barfield an influential life-long friend of CS Lewis
Another lecture on Walter Miller – A Canticle for Leibowitz
Apologetic self-proclaimed validity on the rational scheme of knowing.
“Scholarship is about knowing more and more about less and less so that eventually you know everything about nothing.”
14:30
James Sire
15:70 Malcolm Guite https://www.facebook.com/malcolm.guite
Chaplain of Gerton college and Cambridge
“Faith Hope and Poetry”
He covers the imagination as a way of knowing (an epistemology).
Holly Ordway
Houston Baptist University
“Not God’s Type”
Her 2-track movement toward conversion
18:00 Brainpickings.com Maria Popova (an admitted secular atheist on a continual spiritual search)
19:00
on Spiritual atheism
….if we come up with a system that covers everything (Christians and Atheists alike)…
“Humans are sensitive and emotionally vulnerable to a wasteful degree evolutionarily speaking…highly valuing the arts.” (Lisa)
Christ in the Desert Benedictine Monk and Abbot Philip Lawrence, New Mexico
…slipping in and out of atheism….
21:30 HG Wells, and the fundamentalist reaction to him and others of his ilk.
on how science and religious circles have had an absolute unwillingness to be in one another presence and (have not wanted) to admit any weaknesses and (instead) just shout louder.
22:20
“The best apologetics can do is make Christianity credible and I don’t think it can make it inevitable.”
22:30 “Any belief in any ideal is still a leap of faith for anyone… like Justice, Love, Hope…” (Lisa)
23:30
on How people appeal to a standard outside themselves. (CS Lewis)
24:00
Theories of “survival behavior value” for Morality and Justice kicks the can. or it lands on simple absurdity and meaninglessness where suicide becomes a valid option.
25:00
Doug answering the question….”Is fundamentalism evolving”?
26:00
Richard Foster’s classic over 50 years old “Celebration of Discipline”
27:20
A story of a crucial pivot point for Doug.
28:20
How the psalmists had to cry out to God when the answers didn’t suffice any longer. For us, this is a return more than a departure.”
“I have gained the gift of being able to respect other traditions and admire things they bring us, but I talk to people across that spectrum that have that experience.”
29:30
“We go from trusting our denominational address or theology address to trusting Christ but it doesn’t mean an abandonment of it. Choosing a room in the same house to live in.”
30:10
Spiritual disciplines most meaningful to him:
On solitude and privacy (the difference). Henri Nouwen explains the difference. Henri Nouwen explains in “Out of Solitude”
Doug: Solitude is for battle. Privacy is to be alone.
31:00
Demons come in our solitude (Desert Fathers). The outcome is awareness and purification.
32:00
Wanting “the listening heart” (what Solomon really asked God for).
on the importance of listening to God…
33:30
My Stockholm syndrome at parties. (Lisa)
34:00
“(My) Inability to be with people was driven by a failure to have a real self.”
34:30
“you are nearer to me than my own self.” Augustine
Doug realized:
“My real Self can’t be with people because it’s threatened by them, because they’re going to colonize my Self and going to make me into something I’m not. As opposed to having a real Self that can listen because God is protecting that Self.”
Father Francis Kelly Nemeck wrote
The way of Spiritual Direction (his director)
…Doug and I discuss Detachment and Holy Indifference…
39:00 St John of the Cross (Exploring the spiritually obscured times and darker emotions.)
“the nada” (God is “no thing” the silence before God
40:00
…on staying in the problems and not panicking.
41:00
…on the crucial lesson from his mom that revealed his theology
44:30
(unknowing) Apophetic theology
“John of the Cross didn’t want that we should abandon the metaphors but move through them.”
45:00
“We cannot encapsulate God in our Theology.”
(which is terrifying but life-giving)
46:00
[GOOD NEWS]
Further exploration in a future episode of John of the Cross with Doug coming soon!
If you enjoyed the show please give it a stellar review on iTunes here!
My friend Kayla visited her parents’ church over her summer break for 10 weeks or so.
They were attending this suburban church with a large attendance each Sunday morning and I thought she’d really enjoy the change. Maybe she would be disappointed to come back to her normal, small-town life.
When I asked her about it, she said, “I should have loved it. The music was amazing; the people friendly. They had lots of youth programs and small groups going, and the pastor chose meaningful things to teach. I should miss it, but I don’t.”
This surprised me, so I asked her why she thought this was.
She said something so simple that it gave me a punch of profundity.
“You don’t miss something you don’t feel connected to.”
I started to wonder about the people I’ve lost through death, circumstances, or diverging paths.
Some I missed and some I rarely thought of. Those I did not miss much weren’t really all too different (in general) from the ones I did miss. It didn’t directly reflect the quality of person they were or if we had a lot in common. Like Kayla pointed out, I missed the ones I felt connected with and to. Reflecting on that, the ones that had stronger bonds created more longing or loss in the void of their absence.
That may seem pretty obvious, but the critical gap comes in when we miss why we are connected and what it means to be available and vulnerable on a regular basis with others you can trust. Apart from that, you won’t miss much.
I sense something has been lost in many communities of faith and in many other places because we are so much more amused by our distractions than we are connected in deep ways.
Human connection is never really about measurable stats. We already realize this. It’s about investment in others, sure,
but it’s also about the reciprocity of that investment. It’s always a two-way street.
Some people are wonderful and you invest and hope for a harvest–of some sort–where you both benefit, and you assume they do too, and then it doesn’t happen. The fruition doesn’t manifest or withers on the vine. Maybe the soil was bad, maybe a storm came or drought, or pestilence, maybe something else thwarted success. Sometimes it’s obvious and other times you just sense something is wrong that is hard to make right again. Sometimes you just need to move on and other times, you have to try again in a new season with different seed.
That happens in faith communities and in interpersonal relationships. It happens in business and in extended family life.
If the connection is lacking you won’t be missed. And you won’t miss them. It’s likely that you will feel disappointed about that.
We overlook the idea and process of true connection even as we want it the most.
Is there some thing or someone you’d like to feel more connected with?
Oh,
3 more things.
1. I will be posting a “spiritual-themed” topic about once per week. The other times I will concentrate on other ideas depending on what strikes me and will often concentrate on topics related to helping you create and communicate better.
2. I really am excited to see what this year brings and I’m really happy you came today.
3. Check the top right sidebar to get the next post sent to you through Feedburner!
